The Eighth Conversation

Younger: My friends and family keep asking some questions and I really don't know what to tell them. They keep asking, if the Gods are the real Gods, why don't They get everybody to worship them? There's a bunch of religions and most people belong to one of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic religions. What am I supposed to say about that? Honestly, it's a good question. Why don't the Gods do something about it?

Elder: We all wrestle with that question at some point. It ultimately breaks down into two questions. First, why don't the Gods make everyone believe in Them? Second, why do most people follow a monotheistic religion? The first question is the easiest one to answer. The Gods are more worried about wholesome behavior, and it is human nature to try to do that.

Younger: With all the war and crimes and greed and stuff, you think humans are wholesome?

Elder: You can look at those things but you must also see humans forming communities. They rescue animals. The ones who encounter it prefer clean air and water. Most, but not all, are compassionate according to their own manner. Most really do prefer peace and life. There are exceptions, of course.

Younger: So when Christians went on their crusades, how was that wholesome?

Elder: To the power hungry among the leaders, it was not. To the average person who did not know better, they believed they were doing the right thing. Their leaders built for them a worldview in which going to a distant place and fighting so-called defilers was the best thing for the world and the individuals. The leaders could not just tell those people to go do something unwholesome; the leaders had to mask it as wholesome action.

Younger: And the Gods are okay with that kind of thing?

Elder: Obviously, the Gods are not okay with the leaders who do this. We have tales of Odin visiting leaders in disguise to give the leader a chance to prove himself and fail. Odin's treatment of such leaders is poor. However, the Gods do not require worship; they prefer that humans engage in wholesome activities. That's why the Gods do not force the religion.

Younger: So we aren't supposed to try to spread our religion?

Elder: We can, but not everyone will be accepting. It is better to encourage behavior that would be expected of a member of our religion. For example, if someone is a devout Christian, you will probably not convert them to our religion. However, you can point out that their Book of Genesis has a component where their deity commands humanity to be caretakers of the plants and animals. Being a good caretaker is something we ourselves strive for, so the actions are compatible even with different beliefs.

Younger: Okay, I guess I can kind of see that. But still, the Gods are the Gods. Why do some many people deny that?

Elder: That is a complex question. You can look at that from a sociological/political/historical context, or you can look at it from a religious context.

Younger: That sounds like more homework.

Elder: Everything is. Let's take the example of the Hebrew-based religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Originally, the Hebrews were politheistic like us. They believed in the Gods, but they used the names related to their language and they viewed the Gods from their cultural perspective, but that changed. As they interacted with other peoples and learned other names for the Gods, they needed an identity of their own. They went from being freely polytheistic to a more restrictive belief that their names for the Gods meant that they had Gods just for their people and everyone else had different Gods for those people.

Younger: That sounds familiar. I know people in our religion who say our Gods are only for people from northern Europe and that other people get their own Gods.

Elder: That gets said a lot, and it is similar to the supposed reason for the change in the Hebrews. The concept of identity is important. To some, it provides a sense of security and belonging. To the powerful, it is a tool for controlling people. To the ones today who want to say who can and cannot worship the Gods, it makes them feel special like they are in an exclusive club.

Younger: But the Gods are the Gods of everything, so that eliminates the idea of other Gods.

Elder: Exactly, as we've discussed before. To those ancient Hebrews, they got to feel like a special group and their leaders could control them better. They went further, and decided that there was a chief God for each group of Gods. This meant their Gods had a chief. The Egyptian Gods had a chief, and so forth. This was an important intermediate step.

Elder: Eventually, the chief of the Hebrew Gods was not seen as just the chief of a group, but the only one considered a God at all. All of the others were seen as just helper entities subordinate to the one God. But this was still just for the benefit of the Hebrews, and you will note that the Jews today are still a relatively small group. It was the Christians that caused the first big spread.

Younger: What was different about the Christians?

Elder: Whereas the Hebrews, or Jews as referred to today, considered the religion a tribal thing, the Christian worshipped separate from the tribe. Anyone could be converted to Christianity, but one needed to be born into the Jewish people. This meant that the Christians could spread everywhere and to every people. They did this, sometimes through persuasion and other times through violence. Once converted, the Christian leadership did much to manage the worldview of the people they controlled. Those who challenged the leadership were met with persecution and violence.

Younger: Don't we know better now?

Elder: It depends on what you mean by "we". Most Christians know little of their history, and fewer still actually practice the religion as it is presented in their Bible. Each believes him or herself to be a good person, and belonging to their religion gives them a sense of connection to the divine and to their community. When they hear about violence, they categorize that as isolated incidents or as being from a more violent time when everyone was more violent.

Younger: Can't they feel that something is wrong?

Elder: These days, many have left the formal churches in search of spirituality. Some have tried to form new churches divorced from the rigidness and control of the past. They don't feel that something is wrong because they tap into what is right and then rationalize it in the language they know, which is Christian language.

Younger: How can they feel our Gods and think it's part of their religion?

Elder: It is easier than you think. When they feel a connection with the Wyrd, they believe they are communing with their god. When they interact with their fetch, they call it a "guardian angel" even though their Bible does not support such a thing. When they encounter anything female, they name it "Virgin Mary" and do not look further, all while noting that this Mary cannot be a God because they only acknowledge one.

Younger: That sounds kind of stupid.

Elder: It is not stupid. It is language and culture. In the same way the Gods have different names and stories in Scandinavia than they do in India, in Chrisitan cultures, the Gods are seen differently. It is important to have understanding and sympathy for the people with this culture. Likewise, an awareness of their beliefs will help you communicate with them and encourage wholesome behavior.

Younger: Have you seen how angry and violent some of them get?

Elder: Yes, there are persons who are like that. You will see some firebrand preacher screaming at their congregation, or whoever will listen, trying to rile the audience into unwholesome behavior. If necessary, you must defend yourself and others from violence. Stopping the passionate parson takes more skill and study. If you want to go that route, you had better know their Bible better than they do, and then defeat every hateful thing they say with a more loving and peaceful admonition from the same book.

Younger: Okay, so that's the Christians; what about the Muslims?

Elder: The Muslims have a similar background, but they saw the corruption going on with the Christian church and believe they were given a fix for that. Most of what is written is very wholesome, other than believing in only one deity. Their book requires that they keep clean and that they care for others in the world, including animals and the rest of the environment.

Younger: Then why is there so much violence in the Middle East?

Elder: The fault there does not lie with their book but with leaders. Like the Christian church sending children to the crusades, various Muslim leaders have chosen to corrupt their teachings for reasons of power and control. There are many sects of Islam, each with a different view of their religion. Some are less wholesome than others; you cannot lump them together, just as we cannot lump together all the Christians or all the Jews, or anybody.

Younger: But we still need to convince them all to live wholesome lives.

Elder: As best you can, but nobody expects you to set the entire world to right. You can only do what you can for your area and with the skills you have. If you cannot convince a person to behave in a wholesome manner with your beliefs, attempt them to behave with their own beliefs.

Younger: Wait a minute; you said there was both an historical reason for the monotheists and a religious one. You've only described history.

Elder: Correct. We do not usually speculate on events of the World based on our own theology because it can cause unnecessary debate. Think, however, about your question. Why do people believe in monotheistic religions?

Younger: You said it was because they don't know better, it's what they grew up with so it's how they have to view the world.

Elder: And why do we think people exist in the World?

Younger: The Gods made humans from Ash and Elm to be the allies of the Gods.

Elder: So, if the humans don't know about the Gods, how will they be allies?

Younger: The humans wouldn't be allies. They've basically turned their backs on their mission and responsibility. Who would want that?

Elder: Well, what is it that the Gods would want allies to help fight? We have the forces of extreme chaos, the fire ettins, and the forces of extreme order, the ice ettins. Would they want humanity to desert the Gods and the great fight for balance?

Younger: That makes sense, but wouldn't there be some sort of record if giants were doing this?

Elder: Such as records in history or religious books? One of the first monotheists was a pharaoh named Akhenaten who tried to cast out Egypt's Gods and set up a deity called Aten. This Aten was an aspect of their sun deity and was basically fire. When Akhenaten died, the Egyptians tossed his religion and went back to their original one.

Younger: Is that how monotheism got to the Hebrews?

Elder: Not directly. The next notable monotheist was an Iranian named Zoroaster. He decided that the chief God of his people, named Ahura Mazda, was the only one that was a real creator god and that all the other gods were lesser beings. His religion, like most human religions, teaches many wholesome things, but it still turns away from the Gods. Many of the adherents of this religion maintain a ceremonial fire in their abode to signify their connection.

Younger: Wasn't that the path the Hebrews took to go from polytheistic to monotheistic?

Elder: Yes, some scholars assume that there may have been influence from the teachings of Zoroaster on the Hebrews as they underwent their change. Of course, the Judeo-Christian-Islamic writings also contain some suspicious scenarios. Getting messages from burning bushes and being visited by messengers made of flaming wheels all sound like interactions with fire ettins.

Younger: So the monotheistic religions are all a plot be fire giants to move humanity away from the Gods.

Elder: It is a possibility, but there is no direct proof. What's more, even if you really believe that, it should not change how you interact with your fellow humans. Remember, the people of this World are all children of Ash and Elm and are all allies of the Gods, even if they do not know it or believe it. It is your job as a gothi to guide them to wholesome actions, not necessarily to convert them all.

Younger: This is a lot to think about. I still don't know how to respond when arguing about religion and they ask why my religion has so few people.

Elder: Then also think about why you are arguing. In a fight with an axe and shield, the shield does not block as much as it deflects. When you argue with these people, you are attacking head on against a well-entrenched opponent who has much backing. Try going around or possibly getting invited in.

• Religion for Dummies by Rabbi Marc Gellman and Monsignor Thomas Hartman
• Comparative Religion for Dummies by William P. Lazarus
• Masks of God, Vols I - IV by Joseph Campbell

Important Points from the Conversation

1. Most people want to be good, wholesome people, regardless of their religion.
2. It is more important to encourage wholesome behavior than it is to argue over beliefs.
3. An awareness of other religions and their teachings will help you if you need to have a debate or argument.
4. You can often diminish the effect of hostile members of other religions if you can use their own religion's teachings to counter their arguments.
5. All humans are intended to be allies of the Gods, regardless of whether they know or believe it.